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	<title>Comments on: Microfinance&#8217;s Circular Firing Squad</title>
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	<link>http://www.seattlemicrofinance.org/microfinances-circular-firing-squad/2009/11/10</link>
	<description>Connecting the Microfinance Community</description>
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		<title>By: Deekoo</title>
		<link>http://www.seattlemicrofinance.org/microfinances-circular-firing-squad/2009/11/10/comment-page-1#comment-2540</link>
		<dc:creator>Deekoo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Aug 2010 07:36:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.seattlemicrofinance.org/?p=1866#comment-2540</guid>
		<description>Funding a high-interest compulsory savings account with money borrowed from a high-interest lender does not strike me as a recipe for financial stability.  I suspect borrowers would be better off borrowing less money in the first place, or repaying the loans faster if the lender&#039;s payment structure provides any benefit from doing so.

Compulsory savings accounts are not unknown in microfinance - GiveWell reports 29% of lenders have them.  The net effect of the compulsory savings account systems used by LAPO and the Microloan Foundation appears to be to raise the effective interest rate of the loan.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Funding a high-interest compulsory savings account with money borrowed from a high-interest lender does not strike me as a recipe for financial stability.  I suspect borrowers would be better off borrowing less money in the first place, or repaying the loans faster if the lender&#8217;s payment structure provides any benefit from doing so.</p>
<p>Compulsory savings accounts are not unknown in microfinance &#8211; GiveWell reports 29% of lenders have them.  The net effect of the compulsory savings account systems used by LAPO and the Microloan Foundation appears to be to raise the effective interest rate of the loan.</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan Calkins</title>
		<link>http://www.seattlemicrofinance.org/microfinances-circular-firing-squad/2009/11/10/comment-page-1#comment-1617</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan Calkins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jan 2010 20:10:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.seattlemicrofinance.org/?p=1866#comment-1617</guid>
		<description>Oliver,
Seems like an interesting idea. Have you worked out any back of the envelope numbers? At first glance, it seems like the sums would be pretty small--maybe not enough to entice people. What do you think?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oliver,<br />
Seems like an interesting idea. Have you worked out any back of the envelope numbers? At first glance, it seems like the sums would be pretty small&#8211;maybe not enough to entice people. What do you think?</p>
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		<title>By: Oliver</title>
		<link>http://www.seattlemicrofinance.org/microfinances-circular-firing-squad/2009/11/10/comment-page-1#comment-1616</link>
		<dc:creator>Oliver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jan 2010 19:33:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.seattlemicrofinance.org/?p=1866#comment-1616</guid>
		<description>Ryan, very good ideas for moving Kiva forward into the savings realm. Tim, Dylan and Alana made very good points as well. I am also a former Kiva fellow and saw the need for savings products in Kenya and Uganda. 

In addition to bundling loans with savings, another option could be a stand alone Kiva savings product. For example, Kiva lenders could match a borrower&#039;s savings dollar for dollar in an interest barring account over a period of time. Once the loan matures then lenders get their principle back while the borrower keeps the interest. Kiva’s MFI partners could cover their costs and risks if Kiva shares donations from lenders. 

With this product you could reach clients who may not already be borrowing from an MFI. 

Maybe call it a &#039;savings multiplier&#039; loan. Any thoughts?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ryan, very good ideas for moving Kiva forward into the savings realm. Tim, Dylan and Alana made very good points as well. I am also a former Kiva fellow and saw the need for savings products in Kenya and Uganda. </p>
<p>In addition to bundling loans with savings, another option could be a stand alone Kiva savings product. For example, Kiva lenders could match a borrower&#8217;s savings dollar for dollar in an interest barring account over a period of time. Once the loan matures then lenders get their principle back while the borrower keeps the interest. Kiva’s MFI partners could cover their costs and risks if Kiva shares donations from lenders. </p>
<p>With this product you could reach clients who may not already be borrowing from an MFI. </p>
<p>Maybe call it a &#8216;savings multiplier&#8217; loan. Any thoughts?</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan Calkins</title>
		<link>http://www.seattlemicrofinance.org/microfinances-circular-firing-squad/2009/11/10/comment-page-1#comment-1488</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan Calkins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 15:28:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.seattlemicrofinance.org/?p=1866#comment-1488</guid>
		<description>Alana,
That is an excellent point. In fact, a colleague from the Gates Foundation (which is investing in the expansion of savings opportunities in developing countries) made a similar point. Essentially, the objective is spot on but the timeline might not be realistic. In some ways that might be a good thing: compel the MFIs to begin the process, and if by 2015 they have yet to achieve the ability to take deposits but are on the way, don&#039;t cut them off.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alana,<br />
That is an excellent point. In fact, a colleague from the Gates Foundation (which is investing in the expansion of savings opportunities in developing countries) made a similar point. Essentially, the objective is spot on but the timeline might not be realistic. In some ways that might be a good thing: compel the MFIs to begin the process, and if by 2015 they have yet to achieve the ability to take deposits but are on the way, don&#8217;t cut them off.</p>
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		<title>By: Alana</title>
		<link>http://www.seattlemicrofinance.org/microfinances-circular-firing-squad/2009/11/10/comment-page-1#comment-1483</link>
		<dc:creator>Alana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Dec 2009 18:35:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.seattlemicrofinance.org/?p=1866#comment-1483</guid>
		<description>I love this post.  I&#039;ve been thinking about it for a while and just wonder, what about the MFIs in countries with clear legal restrictions against collecting savings?  Should they divert from their current mission and spend the next 5 years working to get around the legal framework or do what they can within their countries&#039; boundaries?  I&#039;m writing from Costa Rica where Kiva would lose 3 MFI partners if they were to institute this.  Thanks for opening my eyes about the success of and alternative option found in microsavings.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love this post.  I&#8217;ve been thinking about it for a while and just wonder, what about the MFIs in countries with clear legal restrictions against collecting savings?  Should they divert from their current mission and spend the next 5 years working to get around the legal framework or do what they can within their countries&#8217; boundaries?  I&#8217;m writing from Costa Rica where Kiva would lose 3 MFI partners if they were to institute this.  Thanks for opening my eyes about the success of and alternative option found in microsavings.</p>
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		<title>By: Cindy Butler</title>
		<link>http://www.seattlemicrofinance.org/microfinances-circular-firing-squad/2009/11/10/comment-page-1#comment-1418</link>
		<dc:creator>Cindy Butler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 20:33:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.seattlemicrofinance.org/?p=1866#comment-1418</guid>
		<description>Hi Ryan,

This is another excellent idea that requires that one take 5 steps - or 10 steps - backward to implement. David is correct that KIVA has little to do with the savings piece. It requires the local partners to adopt a business model that they may not be ready, or able, to undertake. You wouldn&#039;t want them to do this quickly and haphazardly. It needs to be a thoughtful process. Whether the organization or a bank handles the savings accounts, it takes some time to jump through legal and operational hoops. Perhaps KIVA could figure out how to help these small organizations make the leap.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Ryan,</p>
<p>This is another excellent idea that requires that one take 5 steps &#8211; or 10 steps &#8211; backward to implement. David is correct that KIVA has little to do with the savings piece. It requires the local partners to adopt a business model that they may not be ready, or able, to undertake. You wouldn&#8217;t want them to do this quickly and haphazardly. It needs to be a thoughtful process. Whether the organization or a bank handles the savings accounts, it takes some time to jump through legal and operational hoops. Perhaps KIVA could figure out how to help these small organizations make the leap.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Ogden</title>
		<link>http://www.seattlemicrofinance.org/microfinances-circular-firing-squad/2009/11/10/comment-page-1#comment-1407</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Ogden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 20:48:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.seattlemicrofinance.org/?p=1866#comment-1407</guid>
		<description>Ryan

I agree strongly with the idea of pointing Kiva and others to microsavings with two caveats:

1) The data we have on microsavings thus far is pretty spotty and still preliminary since its only just being tried. Happily the Gates Foundation has just announced funding to replicate Pascaline Dupas&#039; savings study in 4 locations. 

2) The Kiva Fellows are certainly not the army to spread microsavings. Most fellows are young volunteers with little practical experience in the developing world, much less in financial services. This isn&#039;t to knock them but just to say that they&#039;re not the right group.

As you&#039;ve noted savings is pretty complicated and so we need to make sure that as the idea spreads we do have knowledgeable, experienced people at the forefront.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ryan</p>
<p>I agree strongly with the idea of pointing Kiva and others to microsavings with two caveats:</p>
<p>1) The data we have on microsavings thus far is pretty spotty and still preliminary since its only just being tried. Happily the Gates Foundation has just announced funding to replicate Pascaline Dupas&#8217; savings study in 4 locations. </p>
<p>2) The Kiva Fellows are certainly not the army to spread microsavings. Most fellows are young volunteers with little practical experience in the developing world, much less in financial services. This isn&#8217;t to knock them but just to say that they&#8217;re not the right group.</p>
<p>As you&#8217;ve noted savings is pretty complicated and so we need to make sure that as the idea spreads we do have knowledgeable, experienced people at the forefront.</p>
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		<title>By: Dylan</title>
		<link>http://www.seattlemicrofinance.org/microfinances-circular-firing-squad/2009/11/10/comment-page-1#comment-1406</link>
		<dc:creator>Dylan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 15:15:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.seattlemicrofinance.org/?p=1866#comment-1406</guid>
		<description>Hi Ryan,

Thanks for the excellent post and insightful recommendation.  As a former Kiva Fellow and now the founder of SaveTogether, an organization offering an online matched savings program for low-wage workers, I think your analysis is dead on.

While we have launched here in the U.S. to take advantage of the existing matched savings infrastructure, we are interested in understanding the appetite of online donors for this kind of solution.  As we see the response from donors to our platform, we will consider opportunities to expand the concept internationally.  And, as Kiva continues to be an important inspiration for us, I can think of no better way to expand internationally, then to find ways to work with Kiva, its field partners, and its community to complement its lending services with a savings product.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Ryan,</p>
<p>Thanks for the excellent post and insightful recommendation.  As a former Kiva Fellow and now the founder of SaveTogether, an organization offering an online matched savings program for low-wage workers, I think your analysis is dead on.</p>
<p>While we have launched here in the U.S. to take advantage of the existing matched savings infrastructure, we are interested in understanding the appetite of online donors for this kind of solution.  As we see the response from donors to our platform, we will consider opportunities to expand the concept internationally.  And, as Kiva continues to be an important inspiration for us, I can think of no better way to expand internationally, then to find ways to work with Kiva, its field partners, and its community to complement its lending services with a savings product.</p>
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		<title>By: waywardcats</title>
		<link>http://www.seattlemicrofinance.org/microfinances-circular-firing-squad/2009/11/10/comment-page-1#comment-1403</link>
		<dc:creator>waywardcats</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 22:38:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.seattlemicrofinance.org/?p=1866#comment-1403</guid>
		<description>A very good post, thanks for the pointer to it on Kiva Friends.  

In addition to the concern that David raises in his comment, I think Kiva would have to be concerned about their donations if they were to implement your plan.  While many lenders do want to help the borrowers, will they donate to Kiva&#039;s operating expenses AND give to the savings matching fund? I think it more likely that most lenders would choose one or the other, and that would make it more difficult for Kiva to keep their donations rate up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A very good post, thanks for the pointer to it on Kiva Friends.  </p>
<p>In addition to the concern that David raises in his comment, I think Kiva would have to be concerned about their donations if they were to implement your plan.  While many lenders do want to help the borrowers, will they donate to Kiva&#8217;s operating expenses AND give to the savings matching fund? I think it more likely that most lenders would choose one or the other, and that would make it more difficult for Kiva to keep their donations rate up.</p>
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		<title>By: David Roodman</title>
		<link>http://www.seattlemicrofinance.org/microfinances-circular-firing-squad/2009/11/10/comment-page-1#comment-1402</link>
		<dc:creator>David Roodman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 18:58:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.seattlemicrofinance.org/?p=1866#comment-1402</guid>
		<description>Ryan, as I have already tweeted, this is an excellent post. I do wonder, however, how many Kiva partners are legally *allowed* to take savings. There are real barriers to taking savings, though I hope over time they will be increasingly overcome.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ryan, as I have already tweeted, this is an excellent post. I do wonder, however, how many Kiva partners are legally *allowed* to take savings. There are real barriers to taking savings, though I hope over time they will be increasingly overcome.</p>
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